Sunday, May 08, 2005 AD
Mariometry
Thanks to everyone who contributed to the discussion on my various posts relating to the Blessed Virgin Mary, and who took the time to answer the questions in my survey on this topic. Before moving on to other topics (I promise!), here's a summary of the answers given in the survey to date.
In summarising these, I have exercised autocratic and, indeed, largely arbitrary authority over the interpretation of people's responses. As the saying goes, "There are two rules. Rule one: the referee is always right. Rule two: if the referee is wrong, rule one applies."
In the first five tables, "D" means "Yes, as Doctrine"; "P" means "Yes, as Pious opinion"; "N" means "No, but others may hold it as a pious opinion"; "F" means "This is False teaching that must be rejected"; and "?" indicates "not sure" or no answer given (though in some cases I took the liberty of surmising what people's answer would be, where this was pretty obvious from their other answers).
Some people expressed reservations about the connotations carried by the English expression "Mother of God" as opposed to "Theotokos" ("God-bearer"), but only one person denied the underlying doctrine outright as false teaching.
While I answered "N" to the Immaculate Conception, on reflection I agree with Josh, the independent KJV-only Baptist (but counted as Lutheran for the purpose of these results) who answered "No, but it can be a pious opinion if it is not attached to claiming she was born without sin". Very droll. So that would tip the Lutheran answers into 6 "N" and 7 "F" rather than vice versa.
As I recall, the two "Protestants" answering "P" to this were Anglo-Catholics, who are probably grinding their teeth at being given the designation "Protestant". But I didn't want to have too many categories, and anyway, rules one and two apply here as set out above. ;-)
Not surprisingly, this attracted the most hostile response from non-Roman Catholics. On the other hand, only one Roman Catholic respondent positively stated that this ought to be made a doctrine (but they went on to say that the time wasn't right to do so).
I've taken this to mean "second-person devotion" (the Ave Maria, the Rosary, Salve Regina etc) whether in public worship or private devotion, rather than "third-person commemoration" or singing the Magnificat.
One positive outcome of this discussion for me personally has been that I have become very attached to using the evangelical commemoration of the Blessed Virgin Mary after the office in my own devotions. However, I remain of the view that the Ave Maria is pretty much beyond recovery for (Augsburg) Evangelicals, notwithstanding Luther's evangelical explanation of its pre-Reformation form as a meditation on God's grace to and through Mary.
In summarising these, I have exercised autocratic and, indeed, largely arbitrary authority over the interpretation of people's responses. As the saying goes, "There are two rules. Rule one: the referee is always right. Rule two: if the referee is wrong, rule one applies."
In the first five tables, "D" means "Yes, as Doctrine"; "P" means "Yes, as Pious opinion"; "N" means "No, but others may hold it as a pious opinion"; "F" means "This is False teaching that must be rejected"; and "?" indicates "not sure" or no answer given (though in some cases I took the liberty of surmising what people's answer would be, where this was pretty obvious from their other answers).
Theotokos
| D | P | N | F | ? | |
| Overall | 30 | 1 | |||
| Lutheran | 14 | ||||
| Roman Catholic | 6 | ||||
| Protestant | 10 | 1 |
Some people expressed reservations about the connotations carried by the English expression "Mother of God" as opposed to "Theotokos" ("God-bearer"), but only one person denied the underlying doctrine outright as false teaching.
Ever-Virgin
| D | P | N | F | ? | |
| Overall | 8 | 8 | 10 | 3 | 2 |
| Lutheran | 2 | 5 | 6 | 1 | |
| Roman Catholic | 6 | ||||
| Protestant | 3 | 4 | 2 | 2 |
Immaculate Conception
| D | P | N | F | ? | |
| Overall | 6 | 3 | 9 | 13 | |
| Lutheran | 1 | 7 | 6 | ||
| Roman Catholic | 6 | ||||
| Protestant | 2 | 2 | 7 |
While I answered "N" to the Immaculate Conception, on reflection I agree with Josh, the independent KJV-only Baptist (but counted as Lutheran for the purpose of these results) who answered "No, but it can be a pious opinion if it is not attached to claiming she was born without sin". Very droll. So that would tip the Lutheran answers into 6 "N" and 7 "F" rather than vice versa.
As I recall, the two "Protestants" answering "P" to this were Anglo-Catholics, who are probably grinding their teeth at being given the designation "Protestant". But I didn't want to have too many categories, and anyway, rules one and two apply here as set out above. ;-)
Assumption
| D | P | N | F | ? | |
| Overall | 6 | 4 | 18 | 2 | 1 |
| Lutheran | 2 | 12 | |||
| Roman Catholic | 6 | ||||
| Protestant | 2 | 6 | 2 | 1 |
Co-Redemptrix/Mediatrix
| D | P | N | F | ? | |
| Overall | 4 | 2 | 23 | 2 | |
| Lutheran | 1 | 13 | |||
| Roman Catholic | 4 | 1 | 1 | ||
| Protestant | 10 | 1 |
Not surprisingly, this attracted the most hostile response from non-Roman Catholics. On the other hand, only one Roman Catholic respondent positively stated that this ought to be made a doctrine (but they went on to say that the time wasn't right to do so).
Devotion
| Y | N | ? | |
| Overall | 10 | 20 | 1 |
| Lutheran | 2 | 11 | 1 |
| Roman Catholic | 6 | 0 | 0 |
| Protestant | 2 | 9 | 0 |
I've taken this to mean "second-person devotion" (the Ave Maria, the Rosary, Salve Regina etc) whether in public worship or private devotion, rather than "third-person commemoration" or singing the Magnificat.
One positive outcome of this discussion for me personally has been that I have become very attached to using the evangelical commemoration of the Blessed Virgin Mary after the office in my own devotions. However, I remain of the view that the Ave Maria is pretty much beyond recovery for (Augsburg) Evangelicals, notwithstanding Luther's evangelical explanation of its pre-Reformation form as a meditation on God's grace to and through Mary.
